Then comes the fun of trying to lay this out on the ground. It's very likely that any survey done in 1959 uses magnetic north, which helps, but you'll be hard pressed to get better than +/- 2° agreement between your compass and the original surveyor's measurement. That works out to +/- 3 feet at the end of a 100 foot course. That's not really much of an improvement over just following the sideline of the road, which hasn't worked for you. So knowing what the bearings mean is unlikely to resolve your question.

The numbers are there, but you really, REALLY, REALLY NEED to hire a local, licensed surveyor with knowledge of this subdivision. Things need to be taken into account like the width and status of the right-of-way, the typical monumentation situation, the change in Magnetic North in your part of the world since 1959, and allllllllllllll sorts of things that we from outside of Lake County, Ohio wouldn't know from out here in internet land.

I really hope you guys can help me here. I purchased this property a year ago and with my neighbors actions recently I need to find and verify the rear corners and west and east boundaries.In the picture I have included, my lot is in yellow. How do I get bearings from those numbers (N 63 07 30 E note: my keyboard does not have a degrees character to put in)could you explain what these are and how to use a compass to get the angle. The red mark is the only pin I can find. I know approximately where the south east corner is for there used to be a stake with a pink flag but my neighbors contractor broke it down when building his shed...Please help I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks Fo

As a licensed surveyor, my best advice to you is to hire a local competent surveyor to set your boundary markers. This is not a do it yourself job.Calling a few real estate people should get you some leads. Check around and don't just go for the low cost estimate (bid).

PntNo Bearing Distance PP S 63°07'30" W 324.080 PP N 34°50'00" W 80.720 PP N 32°45'00" E 123.500 PP N 45°13'00" E 173.850 PP S 44°47'00" E 205.830 PP Closure Error Distance> 0.0132 Error Bearing> N 78°37'27" WClosure Precision> 1 in 68626.34 Total Distance Inversed> 907.980Area: 45572 S.F., 1.046 Acres

Doubt that this Subdivision Plat was done using magnetic North. Probably a Bearing was obtained using Solar Observation. 1959 may sound ancient to some but not so far back that Polaris and Solar Observations were beyond the ability of those Surveyors of the day. Heck, I went into the Navy in 1959 and the Navy was even building ships with steel and driving them with steam.jud

Welcome to the forum, Patrick. It looks like there are a lot of land surveyors in the vicinity of 7286 Raccoon Hill Drive. If you can't find the answer to your question here, I would try CT Consultants in Mentor, Garrett & Associates in Cleveland or maybe Schade Surveying Co., just about 3.5 miles up the road.

As for the bearings, the first letter is where you start from, north or south. Then comes the degrees and minutes of the angle. Then comes the direction towards which the angle is turned, East or West. So N 34° 50' W means start at north, and turn 34° towards the west, then turn another (50/60)° toward the west. For compass purposes, just round the minutes to the nearest degree, so in this case, round to N 35° W. Then convert to an azimuth, which is how a good compass will be marked. If you start at 360° which is north, and turn toward the west, you will see the azimuth is getting smaller, so you need to subtract the 35 from the 360 and get an azimuth of 325°.

I would try to figure out where the corners are first, and if it looks like trouble, get a surveyor to find or replace them. A bickering argument where no one has had a survey only means trouble. If you can talk to your neighbor, ask them if they would go in halves with you on getting your common line staked. A survey may run $1,000 or more, so it's not cheap. I wouldn't go to a lawyer unless and until you have exhausted reasonable means. Know where the corners are and how much it's worth to you to fight it.

To get the degrees symbol, while holding down the "alt" key, type 0176 then let up on the alt key. A slightly different symbol is [ALT]+0186. : °(= the 0176 code), º (= the 0186 code)

I can only add that in some areas, the building inspectors require a survey and drawing of the lot before they'll issue a permit to build a house. And sometimes, though not always, they will keep those surveys on file. You could check with your local building department and see if they have one for your property.

> Why would there be a stake along your south lot line? Who set it? Is it on the property line or was it set to tie up a goat (ie "goat stake")? The flag you saw at the southeast corner, how do you know it isn't the northwest corner of Lot 19? Even IF you found "pins" at all the corners, how do you know someone didn't move it 5 feet, 10 feet? Even if you found ALL the corners in the RIGHT position, will your neighbor agree they are correct?> > Hire a surveyor.

Thanks Tom and Dave for giving the guy a straight answer. I've always thought that the reason we set corners is so the land owners can find them and know where they boundary lines are. I personally have no problem with a land owner using a shovel, tape and compass to attempt to locate his monuments.

DISCLAIMER: I WAS ONLY CHECKING MATHEMATICAL NUMBERS FROM A PERSONAL CURIOSITY, AND THIS DOES NOT IN ANY WAY REPRESENT ME ATTEMPTING TO SURVEY IN THE STATE OF OHIO

In my area, you can call the bar association legal referral service and for at most $25 you can get a 1/2 hour initial conversation. Perhaps your area has a similar arrangement. You might do that and as about your neighbor's actions, as well as whether your neighbor owes you for a survey to replace the boundary marker. Or was it a boundary marker? The pink flag certainly didn't survive from 1959.

N 67º 7' 30" W would be "North 67 degrees, 7 minutes, 30 seconds West. There are 60 minutes in a degree, and 60 seconds in a minute. I would not worry about the seconds with my compass, and you might get to the nearest 30 minutes or even 15 minutes if you hold it real steady; but you do have to account for the magnetic pull of the needle. Magnetic north is not the same as north-north. The magnetic pull can be over 10 degrees depending on where you are.

If this plat was created on a magnetic north, it is unlikely to be the same magnetic north you can measure today. You can go through the effort of calculating the difference only to find that the actual compass readings from 30 odd years ago don't transfer perfectly to your current north.

Is it just me, or does anyone else suspect we are seeing the return of "HardAssets"? ?If not, Foduddy, if you do not understand what those confusing glyphs on the plat are about, the LAST thing you need to do is to try and replicate then on the ground. Call a surveyor and then you can be SURE if you have a problem or not.

If you need it again sometime try holding down the alt key while you type 248 to get a degree symbol (°). Glad I could help you on something.

Conflicting elements in legal description that calls for a lot and block an additional and unnecessary metes and bound description-

All sound advice on the part of previous commentors. Please do yourself and your neighbors a favor and hire a surveyor if your unable to locate enough of your corners on your own with a compass, tape and metal detector. I've seen too many do-it-yourselfers build a garage or addition onto their neighbor's property because they didn't want to spend the money on a surveyor and then have to spend big money to move it or tear it down, all because they found a pin they thought was their corner, and turned out, it wasn't.

The numbers are quadrant bearings. Using a compass in a residential neighborhood is not reliable due to local attraction.

I think Tom gave the best advice. Forget the compass. Get a tape and rent a survey grade metal detector and find a few corners, then measure from those corners to find the rest. Keep in mind that if you break a utility while digging you will probably have to pay to have it repaired.

A surveyor may be necessary if you can't find the critical monuments (they may be missing or buried too deep to easily locate), or your neighbor may dispute the markers you find, at which point a certified boundary survey will be good evidence on your side. Keep in mind that anything you find may just be a random piece of junk metal that was stuck in the ground for unknown reasons. A surveyor is an expert at distinguishing the junk from the property corners. Please, don't set your own monuments, if you can't find a monument, call a surveyor to reset it.

Why would there be a stake along your south lot line? Who set it? Is it on the property line or was it set to tie up a goat (ie "goat stake")? The flag you saw at the southeast corner, how do you know it isn't the northwest corner of Lot 19? Even IF you found "pins" at all the corners, how do you know someone didn't move it 5 feet, 10 feet? Even if you found ALL the corners in the RIGHT position, will your neighbor agree they are correct?

If you do find such a survey, it will probably show your house and some dimensions from the house to the property lines. This will be the proposed or planned location of the house. The house will not necessarily have been built in that exact spot, and it may have been changed or added onto. And that survey, if it exists, will not necessarily enable you to find all your corners, or convince your neighbor. Only a new survey will do that.

Well, I replied first, early this AM and after a cup or two of good old Folgers... it occurred to me that I might have tossed a scrap to a troll. Who knows?